Dental Health - How It Relates To Autoimmune & Other Body Health Issues
Episode 90: Gutsy Health Podcast
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Show Summary: “When you improve gut health, you also improve dental health. Adding minerals back to our body helps heal the teeth.”
A beautiful set of teeth makes you more attractive and confident. And dentists have different ways to do that. One of those is dental amalgam or silver fillings. You can also buy toothpaste with high fluoride content everywhere because it can prevent cavities or tooth decay.
However, silver fillings and fluoride may not be the best solution to your tooth problem. Silver fillings have fifty percent mercury which is dangerous to your health, and fluoride makes your bones very brittle. Sadly, tooth decay is not the only dental issue that exists. Mouth structure can also be a dental health problem that can affect your breathing seriously.
In this episode with Dr. Michelle Jorgensen, an author, speaker, teacher, biologic/holistic dentist, and health and wellness provider, you'll find out why malnutrition is a reason for your child's inability to develop healthy teeth. Don't forget to share this with your friends and family for tips on how to understand and take care of your teeth better.
Exceptional Highlight:
- Unfortunately, Fluoride makes the bones brittle, leading to higher rates of bone fracture.
- An unhealthy diet can lead to long skinny, narrow faces & noses during growth and developmental changes, making it very difficult to get air into our bodies.
- The tongue's job is to form the upper jaw. If the tongue is unable to go up because it's tied down to the floor of the mouth, the upper jaw then becomes narrow because it doesn't have the force of the tongue going up and spreading the job.
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Show Highlights:
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen’s story
Dr. Michelle 1:39
- I was a general dentist, but I was getting worse and worse while I was taking great care of people. MRIs, doctors, chiropractors, physical therapists, nobody could give me an answer. Until finally, I met another practitioner. He asked me if I had looked into mercury poisoning. He said, "It's the ones that you've been drilling out for the last 15 years with no protection, breathing it all in."
What are dental silver fillings made of?
Dr. Michelle 4:49
- The silver fillings have 50% percent mercury. If you have one today, it's 50% mercury. Everyone says silver is one of the lowest percentage ingredients, like 20% silver, 50% mercury.
What is Dr. Michelle's opinion on fluoride?
Dr. Michelle 21:01
- People started using fluoride because they found that societies with higher fluoride in their water suddenly had fewer cavities. But what they don't tell you is it also had an increased incidence of hyperfluorosis, which is this high fluoride level that also affects the bones and makes bones more brittle.
How does malnutrition affect your child's teeth development?
Dr. Michelle 32:22
- My son's teeth were so messed up when we adopted him. I found out that the maxilla, the upper jaw, is the first bone impacted by malnutrition. So his jaw didn't grow because he didn't have enough nutrition to help it grow.
Important Links
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen LinkedIn
Transcript (DOWNLOAD)
This is a Gutsy Health Podcast with Juanique and Tristin Roney.
Juanique Roney
Hey, you guys, welcome back to the Gutsy Health Podcast, I have my co-host Worful with us. Welcome, Gina.
Gina Worful
Hi, everyone.
Juanique Roney
And we also have Dr. Michelle Jorgensen. Most people probably know her from this is how I know her. She was on Carlyn Calls Just Ingredients podcast. She did this phenomenal podcast about dental health and root canals and how it relates to certain autoimmune issues and body health issues. We are so, so lucky to have Dr. Michelle on our podcast to further the conversation, talk about gut health and dental health, as well as breathing issues that are caused by malph. It's not like malph issues, but it's like malph structure and pallette structure. Is that correct? Dr. Michelle?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Yes. We'll talk a lot about that.
Juanique Roney
Yes. I'm so excited because I had that question. I remember you emailed me and I said I've been looking for two years to interview a dentist about pallette issues and breathing issues and lip ties and all of these things that cause our mouth to be too small and which causes like crowding of our teeth. And apparently that's not normal, is it?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Well, it's not normal. However, I'm seeing it more and more today, and there's a lot of reason for that, and I'm sure you speak about a lot of those reasons in a lot of your other podcasts. Well, it all ties together.
Juanique Roney
It all ties together. Well, I'm really excited to dove more into that. First, can you tell us your story?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
That's always everyone's first question is how in the world did you get into doing what you are doing? Because you're doing a lot of things different than other dentists are. Really, I was another dentist. I was a general dentist practicing. I was doing everything everyone else was doing. You know, I was really focusing on patient care and those sorts of things. But while I was taking great care of people, I was getting worse and worse. My health was really deteriorating and I didn't know what it was. I mean, you've heard this story multiple times, every single day, probably. And I didn't know what it was. So I started down all the path that everyone does. I changed my diet, I started supplements, we added smoothies, just all the things that everybody does. And it got a little bit better but didn't get a lot better. And the two big things that I had were memory issues. I've always had a really good memory and I stopped being able to remember anything.
I knew something was wrong, like drastically wrong. And then I also had numbness in my hands so bad that I literally couldn't do my job anymore and I didn't know what it was. And so MRI's, doctors, chiropractors, physical therapists, everybody, nobody could give me an answer. So I had my practice for sale.
Juanique Roney
Oh, my goodness.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
To know what I was going to do for the rest of my life and finally met another practitioner. He said, you know, you sound a lot like me if you looked into mercury poisoning. And I said, well, I don't know what that would be. I don't have any mercury or amalgam fillings. They said, oh, no, it's the ones that you've been drilling out for the last 15 years with no protection, breathing it all in. And I had an idea because the dental profession doesn't talk about this, they don't tell you that this could be dangerous for the dentist or the dental assistant or whomever sitting there while we're doing it.
So I was a cosmetic dentist. I was drooling out all sorts of mercury fillings because people think they're ugly. I was telling people, hey, if you want these ugly black fillings, I'll take them out. So that's what I was doing day in and day out, breathing in, mercury nonstop. And so it was killing my gut. It was killing my brain and it was killing all my nerves. So I had to figure out a way. The doctor said, all right, now we finally figured out what this is. You can't keep breathing it in and keep adding more mercury into your body if you're going to get it out and you're going to get better. So I had to figure out, was there a way to do that? And I found, interestingly enough, there were organizations that do this safe mercury removal. I had no idea, like literally the dental profession knows nothing about this, which is crazy.
Juanique Roney
And why is that? Why? Why is this so taboo? And here's the thing too, the culture around this as well when you talk to other dentists, they make it sound so whoo hoo ha ha. Like, this is weird and , no, they're actually just trying to scam you for more money. Why is there this culture around it? Why aren't they more open about it? Is it threatening to the dental establishments or like what do you think?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Yes, it's threatening and it's threatening with reason, because think about the way our litigious society works. If the FDA, ADA, anyone were to come out and say, OK, yes, mercury is bad for you, mercury in dental fillings is bad for you. Every dentist who's ever replaced or removed a mercury feeling would be under class action lawsuits.
Juanique Roney
Stop it. You're kidding.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
It's the way our country works, you know.
Juanique Roney
Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Time after time after time.
Juanique Roney
In the food industry, like in the farming industry and like the soda industry, like, yes, I see this all the time, but I wanted you I wanted to come from the horse's mouth because..
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
They simply can't do it, can't do it for legal reasons. So they won't. In September, they actually issued a new mercury directive and said that they shouldn't be placed these fillings because the fillings I'm talking about, those silver fillings, everyone calls them silver, they're three percent mercury. They have the day they started the day to day. If you have one today, it's 50 percent mercury.
Juanique Roney
Oh, my gosh.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
So everyone says. Silver fillings, silver is actually one of the lowest percentage ingredients, like 20 percent silver, 50 percent mercury.
Gina Worful
I've heard so much about the debate between is it like a higher risk to remove it, keep it in. What is your opinion on that? If people I'm sure there's a lot of people listening, like I have those fillings. What's your recommendation?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
The debate is low dose or high dose, really, because it's low dose nonstop every single day. So there is research and this is not like whoI crazy talk research. This is you can go and look it up today on the Internet and find article after article that's saying that the mercury is released without stimulation, meaning without even chewing, but particularly with stimulation. So every time you chew, every time you swallow, every time you get hot or cold food, every time you brush your teeth, it's release. Mercury vapor is released. So that's low dose. That's low dose, nonstop all the time, every single day of your life versus high dose when you get it removed. So we are very, very careful. Those protocols that you can use, that you can remove these fillings safely without getting more mercury into your system, that you're going to get more you're going to get some during that removal no matter how safe we are. So we use a detox protocol before, during and after that procedure to help the body get rid of it once it's released.
Gina Worful
It is really important to have the right person do that. Right. Like, I know there's a lot of people who are like, oh, my dentist said that they would do it for me. Like, how do people know? What should they do?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
There's an organization called the IAOMT. Anyone can look it up, on there is a provider directory of people that have been trained in this protocol to be able to remove it safely. You absolutely one hundred thousand percent need to find someone who can remove it safely. Otherwise you are just going to load your body with a whole bunch of mercury.
Juanique Roney
So I'm literally having like a hot flash right now and like borderline being triggered because my son, his teeth didn't grow unproperly as baby. So I took him to the dentist and he has silver fillings and I am losing my mind. And here's the thing is there was a part of my brain that I'm like, something doesn't feel right about this, like that intuition. But I didn't know any better. And like, are there protocols for children? Like if there are moms out there whose kids have silver fillings.
Gina Worful
Thanksfully he will lose those teeth. Right?
Juanique Roney
Yes, but not like I want them out now.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
It's the same protocol we remove safely we replace with the same material. It's interesting because I was just on the phone last night with a holistic pediatric dentist in Oregon. She's phenomenal and she and I are working on some protocols that we can share with pediatric offices because to me, that's the place where we have to start. And, you know, it's interesting, like I said, in September, there was a new directive saying that mercury fillings shouldn't be put in children under the age of six and pregnant women. So I'm glad that I always say, why everyone else?
Juanique Roney
Yes.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Yes, if not under six and pregnant. Well, I don't want them either.
Juanique Roney
Oh, gosh, no.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Thankfully, they are making baby steps, but I don't think they're going to be able to..
Juanique Roney
They don't trust enough.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Most European countries have completely banned it. They are able to do it because our society, the litigious society is different. Ours isn't. So we have to educate people. We have to know here how to do it.
Juanique Roney
And this is the frustrating part because our government is so slow in protecting us and we the people have to find people like you, Dr. Michelle, to actually educate us and be like we actually have to take the initiative because we're not going to be protected. And this happens in the food industry, the health industry, the medical industry, the dental industry. Like all the industries, we have to be our own advocates. And so people like you, Dr. Michelle, are just golden nuggets in our society, because I feel like I'm a very educated person and I still have no clue. I still have no clue about dentistry. It's one of those things where it's hard to find really good resources, because even among holistic dentists, I keep hearing a disconnect. Like they keep saying, no, this is better, this is better, this is better. So thank you for being this bright light in the middle of it all and being educated and sharing your story of how you are injured and how you are stopping other people from getting injured as well.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
It's interesting I say this often, that the change in dentistry isn't going to happen because of the profession.
Juanique Roney
No.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
They don't have a need to change.
Juanique Roney
No, they don't.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
But the public does. And so this will be driven the exact way that functional medicine has been driven, by the public and the public demand. So people need to demand this change. And I don't even like the word holistic, honestly, because when you say holistic, you know, it's the thing that I say because people know what I mean. But I don't like it because people think that, like, my office is going to have beads hanging in and, you know, we're going to be making, doing, chanting, and that's what we're going to have. And then I wear tie dye every day. People that come to my office, they're like, oh, my goodness, this is the most technologically advanced place I have ever walked into. I'm like, that's exactly right because we know more about research. We know more about the way the body works. We know more about dentistry than it ever has. I have to defend in my position, I have to defend what we do because we're doing things differently. So I have to say no, guess what? There is research. In fact, there's 15 research research articles that have been written in the last year. Would you like to read them? So this is the way we are. People get holistic, but I like to think of it even more as just a health-based dentist, someone who considers your health in relation to your teeth.
Gina Worful
A dentist that doesn't harm you while they help you.
Juanique Roney
Exactly.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Actually, that's a nice tagline. I'm going to copy that one.
Juanique Roney
And you're seeing how teeth are like organs and they correlate with everything else. They correlate with everything. And I never understood why dentists are like eyeteeth. Like once you get a cavity,it never heals itself. No, these are like bones. Bones heal themselves. Before we go into gut and stuff, can you talk to people about the ability that the body has to actually heal cavities and that kind of stuff? And what should we know around that? Because our teeth have blood vessels, they have nutrients going to them. They are constantly repairing themselves. What should we know? When do we know? When we've taken it too far? How do we heal our cavities? Like what would you recommend to people and how would you want to educate the public on this topic right now?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Great question. Really, it starts with the anatomy of a tooth. When you look at the tooth, the part that you're seeing is enamel. You've heard that. That's the enamel on the outside. That's a highly crystalline structure that has a lot of minerals in it. And the way a cavity starts is when minerals are pulled from the tooth and once the minerals are pulled from the tooth, it leaves an open poor and or an opening into the tooth. And that's what the bacteria crawl into. In essence, they poop their acid. I like to tell kids that they poop and the poop makes their cavities. What they're byproducts are, is acid. And then that acid dissolves more minerals because that's what acid does. Acid dissolves things, it dissolves minerals. So all we're doing when the cavity starts to be created is losing minerals in that outside enamel layer. This actually ties it directly into gut so we can go there.
Juanique Roney
Perfect.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Because when someone has a cavity, first of all, we start to think, OK, do you brush your teeth? But you know what the majority of people do, it's not a lack of brushing or a lack of knowledge about I need to brush my teeth. That usually leads to cavities these days. The second thing is diet, because anything that's very acidic and I talk to people all the time, oh, gosh, I drink lemon water all day long because I've heard lemon water is very alkaline. I'm like, fabulous. So you cannot do that all day long because you're going to dissolve the minerals out of your tooth.
Gina Worful
What about all those carbonated waters?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Carbonation is carbonic acid. It is extremely acidic. So it's dissolving your teeth. So if you're going to do what I tell people, hey, lemon water is great, you're right. It does cause an alkalis effect in the gut because you create the opposite of the acid. You create an alkaline byproduct when you drink that. However, you shouldn't do it all day long. You don't once in the morning and then you have to re alkalis them out. You have to allow saliva to do its job. And as long as you're acidifying it constantly by adding something acidic to the mouth, the saliva never has a chance to do what's called buffering or bring that alcohol level back up so the minerals can go back into the tooth. So that's what a cavity is. So if you understand what a cavity is, then you can all of a sudden understand what you need to do to be able to heal it. You need to put minerals back in. This is where good health comes in because of your body, one of the jobs of stomach acid. I know you know this and talk about this. I'm sure one of the jobs of stomach acid is to break apart mineral bonds. So when we eat food that have minerals in them, those bonds actually have to be broken to be able to be uptaking by the gut to uptake them and then utilize them. Well, if you don't have enough stomach acid or your stomach activity is poor, you don't have the ability to break those bonds apart. So your body says, hey, I need minerals to run my brain. I need minerals to run my heart. I'm going to take it from wherever I can find it that isn't as necessary. Yes, but we can live without teeth. So I see cavities in people who have poor gut function because their body stealing minerals from their teeth and their bones. We just can't see the bones stealing minerals from the teeth in the bones to feed the heart, the brain, other essential functions.
Juanique Roney
Can I just add something to that? Nine out of ten people or there's other polls too. But every time I do a poll, nine out of ten people have digestive issues. And this is like thousands of people voting. And the number what I call the Holy Grail to digestion is hydrochloric acid. It's stomach acid. And most of us are in such a stress response that we're in fight or flight all the time. We're in sympathetic dominance, right. Because we're busy moms or we haven't slept because we're raising children or work is stressful or life is stressful and we just haven't been giving these tools to calm down. And so that one of the number one reasons for low hydrochloric acid production is because of our stress. And so that's leading to your drying out minerals, that's leading to your teeth decaying that like, oh, my gosh, it's just the body just works synergisticly, you guys, and it's just so beautiful that you, Dr. Michelle, bring in the teeth aspect, because I never think to talk about teeth and health. And so I'm so grateful for you that you're bringing our attention to this and how it's just like the circle of life with the body.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
All the things that you're telling people to do to improve gut health is going to improve teeth health.
Juanique Roney
Wow.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
So the key is you have to be able to eat minerals into the teeth. So for a little while, while people's guts are healing, we do things externally and internally to get more in. So we have products that we recommend. One is called Shine from a company called Aura Wellness. I'm actually working to create some health care products right now with someone you might know that you mentioned previously. Anyway, I'm really excited to create some things that will be remineralizing, and that's what we call them, remineralizing. We just need to add minerals back and that will heal teeth. Once the demineralization happens through the outside layer, that a normal layer, it gets into the dentin and the bugs invade the inside part of the tooth. Once it gets there, there's like a superhighway of tubules inside of the tooth there called dental tubules. They go everywhere because that's how things disseminate through the tooth. Nutrients come up through the center. They go through these little tubes. It's like the supply chain enamel. Once the bugs get into that superhighway, they spread quickly everywhere. And that's when we when a dentist says we're going to have to fix this cavity. This one you can heal, this one we have to fix, because once it's gone to that dental layer, it's very difficult to just add minerals back and have it heal because bacteria are now on the inside of the tooth. Does that makes sense?
Juanique Roney
Perfect sense. So here's my question. Are all dentists trained to see what cavity can be fixed and why can't? Because from my history with dentists, as soon as they see a cavity, they're like, you can't heal it. We've got to fix this. So are people getting trained now or do we just need to find the right dentists to be like, yeah, this one you can reverse. Let's keep an eye on it. Actually, this one we have to take away or clean up.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Interesting question because they're actually trained to see the criteria that I use. So we're trained to look and see how deep is that cavity? Has it gone through the enamel? Is it into the inside dense layer? Every dentist knows how to do that. That's what we're looking at it on an X-ray is how deep is this cavity gone? But not every dentist is trying to say it's a shallower one. It's not as deep. Yes, here's the protocol now to mineralize this. So you're going to have to find somebody who then knows how to take the conversation to the next step. But you can ask that. You can say, how deep is this? Is this still in the enamel? And they'll look at you shocked and go, why do you know that word? So outside in its products that you can put on the tooth that have high mineral content that can feed the tooth from the outside. Inside out is doing things like healing the gut, but adding a high mineral supplement that's really absorbable. So I love a liquid mineral supplement, a human fulbeck acid supplement that I call it Earth Water. I like people to drink some dirt water that's highly absorbable, but the body doesn't have to work quite so hard to break apart. That's from the inside out. I also like homeopathic sell salts, but they stimulate the body to bring the minerals to the area it needs to go. So there's some things that you can do from mineralization standpoint. If the cavities are still in that outside layer and you can even identify when you're looking at a tooth, if it's along the gum line, you'll see there's a real white area. It might make sense once it gets to the brown, then you're deeper. But it's a real wide area or sensitivity, anything like that, start really laying on the minerals.
Gina Worful
So that remineralization, just to recap on that, you said it does work both from the surface, like putting something on certain toothpaste or a mouthwash or what would that look like? And then also from the inside out, the raw food work. Right?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
And I like to do both, so to hit it from both directions. So the outside and there's a product called Shine from Aura Wellness. It's really good. And the people need to know this. Actually I've been researching hydroxy appetite a lot because it's actually what our teeth are made of is hydroxy appetite. That's the crystal in structure. It's also structure in bones. So if we're going to get hydroxy appetite, we have to get it from bones. So people need to understand that. It's from cow bones. And so if you have a hydroxy appetite product, it is going to be an animal product. If people are very adamant against using it as sort of an animal product, you can use a coral calcium that's not going to be as absorbable or as like to structure, but it is non animal. So just know that, yes, hydroxy appetite is the thing. The teeth are made up. So you want to add it to the tooth. I was just literally yesterday formulating tooth powder that has hydroxy appetite in itself. I know a lot about this right now.
Gina Worful
That's a great question. I just want to ask because I know there's probably a ton of people wondering, do you want to just touch a little bit on your opinion of fluoride?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Yes, let's do.
Gina Worful
I know we have so many questions.
Juanique Roney
Before you answer that, can we just go back to the remineralization because you said this stuff to take in that have minerals, were you referring to that company called Iron Biome that has those minerals that have to which...
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
There is multiple companies. What I really like is called Mother Earth Labs. And it's a product called the gift. You can find a lot of products that have human control with gas, and what that is, is that's just deep deposits in the earth of organic matter. So it's literally Earth's minerals that are available for us. That's why I typically like drinking dirty water, because it's from the earth, it's dirt. So any human can folbigg acid version is going to be more absorbable and it's going to be obtainable by your teeth and you're going to be able to get a result quicker that way.
Juanique Roney
OK, beautiful, because I know people are going to be asking like what company..
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Which one? Phytic acid is what you want to look for, and I know it sounds like acid, like, why would I do that? It's just it's the way that those minerals are structured, the way they're delivered from the earth to us.
Juanique Roney
Perfect. OK, thank you. Go ahead and answer that question about fluoride. I'm so sorry.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
OK, so the reason that people started using Fluoride is that they found that societies that had higher fluoride in their water, which was well water, people were drinking well water. That was a natural source of water that they had all of a sudden have fewer cavities. But what they don't tell you is they also had high incidence of hyper fluid osis, which is this high fluoride level. It also affects the bones and made bones more brittle. Well, they saw the advantage. The teeth went well are not getting cavities. Well, yes, but they're also ugly. They have like these mottled brown and white splotchy things all over and about bad. But, well, they're not getting cavities. So the government said, you know what, let's put fluoride in the water. I think this will really help with tooth decay. It actually hasn't. When you look at research, you'll see that fluoride or cavity incidence has actually increased even during fluoridation days. So it has not done the intended purpose. The problem is, is there's always side effects with anything you add. And fluoride is the only thing that's added to the water that treats the person, not the water. Think about that. Every other thing that's added to the water treat the water, the chlorine to the water. It treats the water. You have fluoride in the water. It doesn't do anything to the water, it's treating the person. And I'll often say, well, what would be OK if the government said, you know, everybody's a little too depressed? I think we ought to add Prozac to water.
Juanique Roney
Oh, my God.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Let's do that. Because that's what they said, is they said everybody is getting too much, too many cavities. Let's have fluoride of the water. Well, what if we had a prozac's the water? What if I'm already on Prozac and I don't know much? What if my child is drinking as much water as I am and now they're getting the same dose of Prozac as I am? And what if I don't need Prozac? I am actually pretty darn happy. I need to be medicated for a thing that I don't have. So I always use those because people like when you say something like that..
Juanique Roney
I love that.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
It's the same thing. So the side effects of fluoride is that it creates a harder and more brittle crystal on your tooth. It's OK because it does create a harder crystal that you can't get it. You can't get a cavity in as well. That's great. Unfortunately, it does it to your bones, too. So a harder, more brittle bone leads to higher rates of bone fracture. And they've shown this, that there's higher rates of hip fractures than areas that are highly fluoridated.
Juanique Roney
That's crazy.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
That's one big that. The other big side effect is iodine. Fluoride and iodine are next to each other. If you remember your high school chemistry, they are next to each other on the periodic table, which means they are on competition for each other in my sights. So fluoride will also bind wherever iodine. Well, iodine is the thing that activates thyroid hormone. So if fluoride is bound to it instead of iodine, you will show thyroid hormone on a blood test. They'll say, oh, no, you're fine, but it's not usable. So they're actually starting to call this type two hypothyroidism where it's not detectable on a blood test. However, you have inactive or unusable thyroid hormone because it's been activated by fluoride rather than iodine. Huge issue. I mean, how many people do you know that are hypothyroid?
Juanique Roney
One in three women. It's insane.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
So I say, listen, cavities are not a deficiency of fluoride.
Juanique Roney
Right. They're not.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
We don't need fluoride. It's not a component of two structure. So it's not a deficiency of fluoride. So why are we adding something to the tooth? It's a deficiency of minerals. Add minerals don't add fluoride and minerals have no side effects, and it's positive.
Juanique Roney
I know, because, like, we can't put fluoride in, but then tell Americans to eat the standard American diet. Right. It's not negating what standard American diet is doing to your body and doing to your teeth. And that's what we keep doing. We keep trying to Band-Aid, Band-Aid so that we don't take accountability and actually look at the elephant that's in the room. And the elephant in the room is our lifestyle and our lifestyle is killing us. But then we are placated by fluoride and we're placated by anti inflammatories and anti depressants and that culture you guys needs to stop because we actually need to see we're not really being protected. We're being like sedated into a full security, and it's not healthy, it's not helping us, it's not helping our children, we're getting sicker and sicker and sicker.We just interviewed Ben Bickman. He's a professor over at BYU and he was talking about how... Oh, he's brilliant. Oh, my gosh.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
He is actually a doctor.
Gina Worful
I think he is.
Juanique Roney
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. He is a doctor. Thank you, Dr. Bickman and he was saying how cancer is going to surpass heart disease is the number one killer in America. And that is because of our lifestyle. It's not because our environment is changing. It's because we are not taking the initiative to protect our bodies. And you're seeing that in dentistry. We're not protecting our teeth.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
I have to tell you a story.
Juanique Roney
Yes.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Even if it's not on topic, it's about what you just said.
Juanique Roney
I will hear it.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
So yesterday I went to get my hair done because I haven't in six months because of Covid and I was looking really bad.
Juanique Roney
No, it looks amazing. By the way, your hair looks amazing.
Gina Worful
She did a very nice job yesterday.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Anyway, so I didn't know this girl. I'd never seen her before. And she starts, you know, we're just chatting, whatever. And I ask her where she lived. She said, oh, I'm living in my boyfriend's parents basement because he's had some health challenges. And I said, oh, really? You know, I'm nosy. I'm like, well, you know, what challenges does he have? Because I think, well, I can help. She said, actually, he has cancer. He has something called rhabdomyosarcoma. And I said, oh, it's musclemen. I know what that is. Oh, that's awesome. And she said, yes, that's a tumor. And as a tumor in his stomach right now and his pelvis area. And so I sat there and start processing again. Organs and teeth are connected. Everything's connected. And I said, OK, then, has he ever had injury to one of his front teeth? He is heavy. Has he ever damaged his. He had a root canal. Anything I said because the pelvis region is connected to front teeth and he looked she looked at me. She said his brother hit him in the face and he has a dead tooth right here. I said I knew it. She's like, How did you know that?
Juanique Roney
Oh my gosh.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
I said, the weakness in the pelvic region. I said, that tooth needs to come out immediately and immediately.
Juanique Roney
That's amazing.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
The reason why cancer is increasing is because we are not really understanding the cause of inflammation in the body.
Juanique Roney
Right.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
And when we don't understand the cause of inflammation in the body, it goes unchecked. And all of the bandaids and things that we cover the inflammation with do nothing to repair the problem and our body just responds the only way it knows how to do. Anyway, it was just crazy. I'm like, here's my card. I would like to see him.
Juanique Roney
Bring him in.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Because he's stage four. You know all about this. You know exactly what this looks like. He's twenty five years old. I'm like, you know what? We've got to fix things. We have to stop this.
Juanique Roney
And it's so unnatural to have people so sorry like this. It's like their fathers are dying, their children are dying. Their spouse is like, why is this happening? You know, like cancer used to be an old person's disease. And it's not like I was just thinking the other day, sorry to turn this about my life, but like, I'm thirty three and I've been doing this for five years and my husband's been dealing with this. He was thirty three when he was diagnosed like we are babies.
Gina Worful
We're just going to say your baby.
Juanique Roney
We are babies dealing with old people's problems, do you know what I mean. And it's not kind and it's not fair. We need to do better for our children. We're kind of stuck in it. Like this has been the build up over the past 20, 30, 40 years of dysfunction in our food and our lifestyles and how everything's been changing and how this industrial revolution has just really screwed us over. Let's just call a spade a spade. Right. And we're just so sick. And it's not because that happened five years ago. It's been building up over the past 50 years where we're just exposed to tons of toxins and toxic foods. But now we're getting educated. We're seeing the ramifications of the past 40, 50 years and how it's destroying our families, destroying devastating, completely devastating our families, our young families. We, listeners, need to do something. We need to do better for our children. We need to help our children because it's not too late for them. It isn't. So let's help them. Thank you, Michelle, for being a part of this movement and for waking us all up.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
And I think that's perfect segue into talking some about breathing and sleep.
Juanique Roney
Yes.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
This is about kids, too. It's about kids. And this is something that's killing them as well in a slow, stealthy, you don't even understand what's happening way. So when we talk about the center American diet, it's interesting, Dr. Weston Price, if you're into nutrition at all.
Juanique Roney
We love Dr. Weston and I love him.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
He was a dentist.
Gina Worful
I didn't know that.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
That's his whole story. He was a dentist. He was a head of research department of the American Dental Association in the nineteen thirties.
Juanique Roney
Had no clue.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
He was practicing in Ohio and he was disturbed at how he was seeing more cavities, particularly in children, after they started flirting. Interestingly enough, though, he wanted to go and study indigenous societies to see how their dental health, their diet impacted their dental health, and the reason that he's so impactful is because he had a camera so we can see it and he was able to go and find places that hadn't been touched by the standard diet yet. We couldn't find them today, we couldn't find what I had today because everybody's been touched by the same diet. So as he studied that, what he found is as diet changes, the growth and development and facial structures changed. And he has a you look at his book is books like Three Inches Thick is right back. There is picture after picture after picture showing facial changes. Even my favorite pictures, two brothers side by side. One had been eating the diet that was traditional and one had been starting to eat, add sugar to his diet and eat more of a modernized diet. You can see the change in their facial structure. They have the same genetics.
Juanique Roney
Yes.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
The growth in development is different. So what he found is that just started forming narrower. We started getting long facial development and very narrow noses. Now we might think, oh, great, we like small noses. No, no, no, not so good. What all that growth and development change has led to that as well as sippy cup and pacifier usage has led to a lot of long, skinny, narrow faces and long skinny narrow faces make it very difficult to actually get air into our bodies. So the children end up mouth breathing. They end up hanging their mouth open just to try to get enough air. When air doesn't pass to the nose, it doesn't create all sorts of a hormone cascade that helps with attention, helps with sleep, it helps with all sorts of things. So all of a sudden we see bedwetting in children. We see reraising incidences of ADHD. We see focus issues. We see growth and development issues. A lot of children that are small for their age that shouldn't be or massive weight gain in kids. Kids that are fat, they shouldn't be fat. We see so many changes in the facial structure and it's so one hundred percent related to diet, to what we're eating and we're all doing it.
Juanique Roney
Wow.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
This is why people have to get their wisdom teeth out. Now, people five hundred years ago had room for all thirty two teeth in their head. Do you think God really made something that had to be removed because it wasn't able to be removed until nineteen ninety seven or whatever?
Juanique Roney
No.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
All of a sudden our faces are big enough for even the teeth that we're born with. And then you know, all the crooked teeth. I mean I have two brothers that are orthodontists. Well their lives are really great because of our poor diets. I guess everybody has crooked teeth.
Juanique Roney
I grew up in South Africa and I can tell you, well, especially the age that I was growing up, which was like thirty years ago, but hardly anyone had braces, hardly anyone like I never got braces and everyone's teeth form so much better. When it came to the United States, everyone had braces, everyone. And I'm like, what is wrong with them. I just thought it is genetic. I thought it was genetic. I did like this is literally stuff that went through my head as a fifteen year old moving to the United States, and I was just shocked. And then I thought, well, maybe Americans are just obsessed with perfect teeth. I think they are too. But, that's a part of it. I'm like, why are so many kids my age having all these tooth issues and.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
They are eating Wonder Bread and baloney, that's why.
Juanique Roney
Right. So can you tell us what is happening as they are eating? Is it because they are eating soft foods so they're not strengthening the muscles around their teeth? What is happening with the hard palate and the soft palate in the mouth? Can you break this down for us?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Yep. So it's interesting because I adopted my son, my third son is adopted and we adopted him when he was two and a half. He was extremely malnourished when we got him. And one of the things that his birth mother said, she knew I was a dentist and she said, I'm so glad he's going to you because you're going to be able to fix his teeth. And I'm thinking as to what does he have going on already? His teeth were so messed up. Instead of four teeth in the front, they were like airplane runways, two teeth behind.
Juanique Roney
Oh, my gosh.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
He is a two year old and his parents have been better. He's been like through braces, like, I don't know, fifteen times now he is fifteen. What I found out is the maxilla, which is the upper job, is the first bone impacted by malnutrition.
Juanique Roney
Wow. In the whole body?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
In the whole body.
Juanique Roney
Oh my God.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
We are the most malnourished, overfed society ever on the planet Earth. We have more food than we need. We have less nutrients than we need.
Juanique Roney
Oh my gosh.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Because our food doesn't have nutrients. So the maxilla is the first bone impacted by malnutrition. So his body didn't grow. It didn't grow because he didn't have enough nutrition to help it grow which leads to all the things you've described.
Juanique Roney
Is this the same as like because this happened to my son when his front teeth started growing out, they started rotting immediately like they didn't form enamel. Is that the same thing? Because he just didn't have enough nutrition?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Most likely.
Juanique Roney
And so have you ever heard of that happening with kids? And how can moms fix that? What are they supposed to do? Because I was that mom, I didn't know what to do. So my kids pediatric dentist is like, we're just going to do all these root canals and put all these fake teeth in. So he had, like half his mouth with fake teeth. And I am dying inside, like I'm just dying inside. As I hear you talk. What are we supposed to do for our children when this happens? Because it's actually happening more and more and more. I see it more and more in the mom Facebook's and people are like, what do we do? Do I just keep brushing their teeth? What would you do?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
It's mineral's like crazy and then, yes, there are things like hydroxy appetite varnishes that are just on the forefront now, things that we can add to teeth. It's minerals, minerals, minerals, minerals, minerals, the powder on the teeth, the minerals in the body all the time. You have to add minerals to the body. You have to give it enough nutrients to be able to grow properly. It's also sometimes heat so it can be a high fever that can cause that as well. So ear infections, things like that, which are often dietary related, are very commonly the cause of tooth defects as well. Anything that heats the body up to a high temperature during growth and development time of those teeth will affect the way that the tooth actually forms. So I can look at someone's mouth and I'll look at them. They laugh at me and say, you had earaches, you had it. Right? And like, how do you know that?
Gina Worful
Oh, my gosh.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
I can see which teeth were developing when you are two and I can see a line, a band right through the center of them that didn't develop properly. That's when you had those ear infections.
Juanique Roney
You are like the tooth whisperer. I just love this so much. It's amazing.
Gina Worful
Unbelievable.
Juanique Roney
So I have another question. Let's say I ate poorly and now, like, my facial structure is smaller. Are my kids going to inherit that?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
No.
Juanique Roney
OK, so I have a personal question, and I know this is probably like a lot of moms are probably having this issue too. My newborn baby Satory. My second one, she came out of the womb and four days later she was snoring and she has never stopped snoring. What is happening for our children like that and how can we help them? Is that genetic or did she inherit that? Is there a solution to all this for our children? Save us, Dr. Michelle.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
So one piece is genetic is lip and tongue ties, and it's a midline deficiency. So when you talk about midline.
Juanique Roney
And she has tons of those.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
MTHFR and people know about MTHFR, it's going to create a midline deficiency.
Juanique Roney
Can you talk about more midline deficiencies that people can see other than like are you familiar with the stork bite and the Sacral dimple? Are you familiar with those?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
There's tons of them that show up as those midline pieces. The really easiest one is the lift up to the top level and lift up their tongue. And if you see that there's a tight band of tissue underneath the top lip or underneath the tongue, if the tongue doesn't just come freely up, there's a little hole. Now, that's a midline. We know that things have happened along the midline in growth and development time during just even pre birth. And those things largely are genetic. They're determined. And I believe I'm this is this is personal belief. But I believe that those genes are dominant and we're starting to see more and more as they are impacting our civilization. People are married and having children and they each have it. And now we have people double. That's why I got sick. I didn't know, but that's why I got sick. My dad's a dentist as well. He didn't get sick from Mercury. He still practicing at age 70. I got sick because I am double MTHFR. I was not able to process the mercury the same way my dad does. So these are things that you can identify right off the bat with that baby.
Gina Worful
And then what does that mean? So let's say they do identify those symptoms. What does that mean that you don't have. Does it have to do with MTHFR or that have to do with reading or what does that have?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Oftentimes it does indicate MTHFR, but that doesn't mean it's fine if you just figure out what you have to do, which it's typically a methylation or processing problem. So you have to know that moving forward, when any time you get medical work done, any time you have other products. But from airway standpoint, what does that mean? The tung's job is to form the upper jaw. That's part of what the tongue does. If you think about a baby that's nursing or suckling, the tongue goes up to the roof of the mouth against whatever they're suckling against. And that's the motion that they make to nurse and to swallow and to drink and everything else. If the tongue is unable to go up because it's tied down to the floor of the mouth. It's unable to go up. It comes forward to do those motions. The upper jaw then forms narrow because it doesn't have the force of the tongue going up and spreading the jaw.
Juanique Roney
Oh my gosh.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
You get a narrow top jaw development impacted again by nutrition if somebody has poor nutrition so you get a very narrow job. Well, it's like if I'm trying to cook Thanksgiving dinner inside the kitchen in my trailer, it's not going to work because I have so much stuff and it just doesn't fit. So the same thing happens in a mouth. There's so many structures that need to be inside of that mouth, but off the top, just to narrow, they can't all fit. So the tissue hangs back in the back of the mouth and that's where the snore comes from, because as air passes by that tissue, it vibrates and that's a snore. So most likely your baby has a very small upper jaw, genetically, perhaps because of MTHFR, you know, some genome issues. People were like, do I have to do it? The answer is absolutely, because it's going to impact the growth and development of that child. It's so much easier to let that tongue do its job rather than have to go back now at a six year old or a 10 year old or a twenty five year old and undo what didn't happen during the growth phase.
Juanique Roney
That makes perfect sense. And again, I'm sitting here as a mom and I'm just dying inside, like, where were you in my life like three years ago when this is like because I just didn't know and I didn't know who to trust. I spoke to other dentists and I just kept getting so confused and no one could explain it to me the way you are explaining it. So now they're not sleeping properly. What is that doing to their bodies and what are some signs that they aren't sleeping? And how alarmed should we be by this? And I'm going to tell listeners right now, as a mom, I'm already triggered. I'm already like I'm sweating as I'm sitting here. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I have so much work to do.
Gina Worful
I'm sorry. We can do this again.
Juanique Roney
No, no, no, no, no, no. This is so good. This is so good, because we all need to know this, right. We need to do better, and I'm so, so grateful that you're here. So educate us like wake us up and tell us how we can save our children.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
The signs are restless sleep, snoring, hengel bed sheets, you know, that sort of thing, bedwetting, enormous and focus issues. So if they're having ADHD, anything like that, as well as deep breathing, like my son, I can always tell when he fell asleep in the car because all of a sudden I can hear.
Juanique Roney
Yes.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
I always tell those are all signs that they are not getting enough air. What do you do about it? That's the good news. We have options and solutions.
Juanique Roney
And what's the long term ramification of that? Because I think you throw out a statistic earlier and it just it shook me like in one of our previous emails. So can you tell listeners about the long term ramification?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
So two thirds of Americans have some sort of sleep disorder and that sleep disorder is going to lead to a reduction, twenty five percent reduction in the length of life. So if I figure, OK, I'm going to live to one hundred and eighty because I don't breathe when I sleep. So it's going to reduce life expectancy by nearly a quarter when you don't sleep.
Juanique Roney
Wow.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
It's enormous, and it also increases the risk of heart disease. If any inflammatory disease, because of the lack of oxygen is inflammatory. Oxygen is the thing that..
Juanique Roney
Keeps you alive.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Brings us alive, basically. It's extremely inflammatory. We can't get rid of free radicals. We can't get rid of any of those things. So if we don't breathe, it leaves us. Also, we're going to go right back to what you talked about with the fight or flight sympathetic overload. If you're not breathing, your body is going to be stuck in sympathetic overdrive. Your gut is going to stop working. You're going to stop healing. You're going to stop regenerating. All of those things. I call sleep the construction zone. It's in your body goes to work. Well, if you can't go there, you never are going to be able to heal. You're never going to be able to get better. This is a conversation I have every single day about ten times a day with people. So we have to fix this. And children and adults, we are going to have any kind of quality of life.
Juanique Roney
Can I add something to that, too? Because when I was, I still work in the clinic, but when I was seeing a lot of kids, a lot of kids from like the age of 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, all the way in their teens, they're coming with more and more mood disorders like anxiety and depression. And so when we think about their inability to sleep properly because of the structure of their mouth, because they're not eating nutrition or because of our gene mutations, compounding that with like blue lighting and the amount of screen time, our children don't even have a chance. You guys, they don't have a chance like we are setting them up for failure because we're blasting blue light after the sun sets. They're constantly in front of screens. We're constantly overstimulating their brain. They're sleep deprived now and they're nutrient depleted. It's just this perfect storm for disease to set in and for them to not live a long and vibrant life. So let's do better.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
We can do better. There's actually interceptive appliances that we can use. So when we identify these issues, first of all, we put those ties so that the body can help to develop itself. We'll make sure the nose is working, that you can actually breathe through the nose. Even some simple things like those breathe right strips actually will help something. And then we have some appliances, ones called mild braces. Another was called Healthy Start. These are appliances that can start as young as two years old that can help form the upper jaw correctly. If we can intercept this while they're growing, it's so much easier to fix and we never promise that they're not going to need braces. I mean, you never need braces honestly. OK, you're not going to want braces later, but a large majority of the time you're not going to want braces later because your teeth actually form correctly. Your tongue goes up. It's also partnered with exercises. We do exercises to retrain the tongue to go up one when it's released, you have to teach you how to do that because of how to do it. So we retrain the tongue muscles, we retain the swallowing muscles and these kids do these exercises. As an adult, what can we do? We can do the same thing. We actually have expanding appliances in adults that will that they don't just tip the teeth because that's the only one we want the job to be wider. They actually will help that the suture or the division in the roof of the mouth grow so we can help to actually add bone there, and a lot of sleep appliances for adults, this is an epidemic in adults. Weight gain, adrenal problems can't heal autoimmune diseases. All of these things are signs that you're not breathing at night. If you're waking up at night, if you can't stay awake at night, if you're having to get up to go to the bathroom five times a night, guess what? When you aren't getting enough oxygen, your body actually delivers or deposits a lot of ammonia in your kidney. Well, the kidney will not tolerate that. So if you're going to the bathroom a lot of night, you're not breathing.
Juanique Roney
Holy cow.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
We can do sleep studies actually at home, sleep studies where we had males. It gets mailed to you and we can determine exactly what's happening while you're sleeping. And then if all we do a lot of the appliances the doctors do is just bring the jaw forward. Well, it does help and then it opens the airway slightly, but it damages the jaw joints over long term use. So it's not a solution. It's a Band-Aid to the problem. We have solutions.
Gina Worful
So interesting. I want to do a sleep study now, just want to sleep study, be good just for anyone to do it.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
90 percent of sleep disturbance or sleep disturbances are undiagnosed. And that means 90 percent of the people that are listening to us right now have most likely well, two thirds of the people have a sleep problem, 90 percent of them don't know it.
Gina Worful
But is there any situation where snoring would be OK and normal?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Never. People say, oh, my kids are so cute, they sonre like they're dying.
Juanique Roney
I know you're not saying that. Are you saying that or are you saying that in your head?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
It depends on the person.
Juanique Roney
I bet that's something that I would do too.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Yeah.
Gina Worful
Literally crying. I don't say that. Yeah.
Juanique Roney
Right, right. We should probably address this very gently and fast.
Gina Worful
I want to do a study now. This is so interesting. Everyone I know to do. I want like my whole family, everyone to study.
Juanique Roney
So, Dr. Michelle, you were talking about different types of palate expanders. Is there a good, better, best? And what is the benefit to each one? Because I keep hearing about these different brands and some dentists say, no, we don't work with kids after the until they're six and older. Some are saying we can work. You just said to end up like, what is your opinions on these different types? And what if you are local just go and see Dr. Michelle Jorgensen. As soon as we finish, I'm actually scheduling with you at your clinic for my entire family. But what should we be looking out for as far as like brands go.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
There are some brands. This is an up and coming thing in dentistry. Thank heavens people are starting to pay attention to it more. So the two brands for children are the mild grace or healthy start. There's also something called an alpha appliance that can be used in children. Those are all effective. They all work. Typically, they're similar in the way that they work for an adult. The appliance was called a DNA appliance has nothing to do with your DNA. I think they trick people by calling it that. It stands for daytime nighttime appliance. But it was purchased by a company called VOCs. So that may have been a name you've heard as VOCs. It's the company that purchased that appliance and the rights to use it. They have since really widened their market, which I love. However, it's also put this appliance in the hands of some doctors who are not entirely trained, if that makes sense. So there are some the appliance may not matter as much as the person who's helping you with that appliance.
Juanique Roney
- All right.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Make sure they have some experience with actually treating this problem that they're not just doing. This is a new moneymaker which can happen.
Juanique Roney
All right. Well, Dr. Michelle, this has been so eye opening. You've given us a lot to ponder. And how can people find you and how can they learn more from you?
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Yes, please, everyone. I have so much information on websites. So my dental office is called TotalCareDental.Com. Please go there. There's a lot of information. People are often wondering where do I just find answers to these questions? I have all sorts of videos. I have all sorts of things that you can download or just go there and find information. I'm happy to share where on Instagram. The same thing. TotalCareDental, Urah and then I have a side gig that I like to do. It's called Living Well Dr. Michelle and I talk about diet, I teach you how to cook these things. I teach actually how to grow these things, how to incorporate all of us into a self-sufficient lifestyle so that you can take these things in your own hands and not have to depend on agencies and governments and whoever else that we depend on, even stores that you can actually provide for yourself what you need. So that's again, livingwelldrmichelle.Com or on Instagram, Facebook as well. You find me everywhere. Just get the information and start learning.
Gina Worful
Just real quick, and you also said that if people do want to do a sleep study, that they can do it at home, though I'm not local, I'm San Diego. Could I do a sleep study with you and get some information and results and all that.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Absolutely, we do virtual consults for people all over the world. So we consult with you, we talk with you about your needs and then you have the sleep. Study is a remote system where we sign up on an online portal. They send it to you at home, you send it back in and we get a sleep diagnosis.
Juanique Roney
You are such a gift to this community. Thank you, Dr. Michelle.
Dr. Michelle Jorgensen
Opportunity.
Juanique Roney
Absolutely. And thank you, listeners for tuning in. Hopefully you loved this podcast episode as much as I did. And if you did, please leave a reading or a review and we will get you next week. Thanks, everyone.
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